Metal Sonic issues/suggestions

[DisapprovingOwl]

Finally managed to get all 130 emblems, which means I've been able to appreciate your hard work implementing the Dreamcast-styled Metal Sonic for the first time! Thanks so much for including this option in the characters pack - it's so nice to be able to play as a Metal Sonic modelled by the team behind the original DC version, even if he's a little lower-poly than the "proper" DC characters. = )

Having played through a bunch of the stages with him, I've noticed a couple of small issues:

• During his Stage Clear pose, for some reason DC Metal Sonic's left foot doesn't bend properly, leaving his foot flat but raised in mid-air rather than standing on tip-toe like Sonic does during the same animation. Haven't played with the default DX Metal Sonic, but from looking at screenshots I think this issue may be DC Metal Sonic specific. Metal's feet do seem to flex a bit in other animations as far as I can see, so not sure why they're not bending properly in this one...!
• DC Metal Sonic's eyes currently can't move - I'm guessing this is a limitation of how the DC Metal Sonic was modelled, given that it was never originally intended to be used as a playable character, so not expecting this one to be fixed as it'd presumably require some remodelling to do so.
• Metal Sonic's Light Dash aura is the same shape as regular Sonic's - is it possible to give him one which matches the shape of his head/body? I know this is an issue inherited from vanilla SADX, but it'd be great if it were possible to fix.

Also had some suggestions for a couple of tweaks which, if possible, might help it look even better:

• Could the completely black areas on DC Metal Sonic (around the eyes, and the hole in the centre of his chest) be made to ignore lighting entirely like his pupils currently do? At the moment both areas look very odd when they catch the light heavily - see the screenshot below for an example of this, along with a mockup of how it might look if these areas ignored lighting as I've suggested. (Note: These shots also give a clear look at the Stage Clear animation issue I described above.)

Current:
"Fixed" mockup:

• Is it possible to add the environment mapping effect that's applied to Metal Sonic's body to the sphere which appears when he rolls/jumps? It currently looks a little odd, as currently he stops looking so metallic/shiny whenever he jumps/rolls.

Finally, a question which I wasn't really sure where to ask: if someone could create the necessary render, would it be possible to give Metal Sonic a different 1-up icon if the DC Metal Sonic skin is switched on? I understand if it's not possible - just feels a bit strange seeing DX Metal Sonic's face on item boxes as he looks quite different to the DC Metal Sonic!

Thanks again for all your hard work on the DC Characters mod so far, and for including the DC Metal Sonic option in the mod in the first place! = )

[ItsEasyActually]

Most of these suggestions are completely doable. Lemme go down the list.

• The foot issue is something I'm not sure how to fix currently. It is very likely a problem that would require me to change his models again to work correctly which I'm not opposed to doing, but I don't know how to fully fix it even if I did that yet.

• I really wanted to make his eyes movable, but it is exactly what you said. The way this model is done, the eyes would be all over the place and not look good. Easiest solution for that is honestly giving him a few customs anims to avoid the eye problems.

• Making a new LS Aura for him would be cake, and probably fun to do so as well. Not something I thought of originally, so I very well might do this in the future. Even give him a custom texture for it to boot.

• I can do this with the black portions of his model. You're right saying it would most likely look better, so I'll definitely do this in the next update if it looks good in testing.

• Adding an env map to his sphere would be really cool, but it's going to require some reworking to make it doable because we can't add env maps on top of regular textures. The game's material system isn't that nice.

• Absolutely something I can do. I would want to source it with the HD GUI mod though to ensure it's on par with the rest of the updated content.

Thanks for your suggestions! This is really good feedback to have in the end because this gives me more ideas on where to take the mod going forward.

[DisapprovingOwl]

No problem - glad the feedback was useful and that you seem open to implementing many of the ideas! Knew the eyes one would be an issue, so not surprised that one probably won't be looked into. DC Metal Sonic seems to be based on the Sonic CD design (albeit with longer limbs/spines), so his eyes are completely circular rather than oval-shaped like Sonic Adventure 2 onwards - I don't think I've ever seen art or sprites of the CD-styled Metal Sonic where his eyes aren't looking forwards, so having him with completely circular eyes which could move freely might end up looking strange on him anyway...!

Noticed one other thing which seems like an error/omission, although it's yet another that's inherited from vanilla SADX:

• In Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, when Metal Sonic is hovering a jet of flame comes out from his back vent like in his previous appearances in Sonic CD, Sonic: Triple Trouble and Sonic R. When porting him over to SADX, however, it looks like the devs didn't even bother trying to replicate this effect! Is there any chance you'd be interested in looking into adding a similar effect when Metal Sonic uses his hover animation?

Also, you mentioned custom animations could be a solution to some of the issues - I didn't realise these were possible, and don't know how much can/can't be done with them, but had a couple of related thoughts:

• When using the "hover replaces both running animations" option, would it be possible to swap the fastest running animation with a custom "faster hover" animation imitating the one used when Metal Sonic runs at max speed in Sonic Adventure 2: Battle? In that game, he has a hover similar to the SA:DX one for his normal running, and another for max speed where he leans further forward and judders back and forth a little more. If it's possible, this could better differentiate the two speeds when the "hover replaces both" option is on, while also making sure the fastest speed looks a little more intense in the same way the "stretchy shoes" max speed animation achieves for DC Sonic.
• To solve the Stage Clear animation issue, is it possible to replace it with a completely custom animation? This could have the benefit of avoiding the current issue while simultaneously further differentiating Metal Sonic from regular Sonic. If this is possible, his iconic crossed arms/finger wag from Sonic CD's Stardust Speedway might be a good source of inspiration for a suitable era-appropriate pose.

Hope these suggestions are useful - will let you know if I think of anything else.

[ItsEasyActually]

Custom animations are entirely doable, it's just not something easily done. And that relates to your question about the jet effect. This is pulled off using models that are animated. It would be entirely doable if we could make MS his own unique character, but that's getting pretty complex to do just for a reskin. An alternative way may be something with looking at how some effects are applied to characters, like shields, etc. It would take a lot of research to do, and starts getting very complex for just a minor add-on to this mod. I may move this Metal Sonic to a separate mod eventually if I decide to get that complex with him.

[TheWonderFromDownUnder]

Putting this here on account of relation to the issue topic, could you maybe add a toggle to set Metal's idle quotes to Sonic's or his own, or otherwise make it separate from his skin?

I ask as I tried to use the SA2 Sonic mod in conjunction with DC Characters. With the DC skin turned off, SA2 Metal will still use Sonic's idle quotes. Turning the skin on makes Metal use the correct quotes, but also gives him a weird colour palette.