diff --git a/Makefile b/Makefile
index e44f38a..1a4a84c 100644
--- a/Makefile
+++ b/Makefile
@@ -163,4 +163,8 @@ test_shim_copy_baseDir:
 	-./shim_copy_baseDir.sh >shim_copy_baseDir.log 2>&1
 	python3 ./check_shim_test.py shim_copy_baseDir.log 
 
-test_shim: test_shim_post test_shim_copy_strip test_shim_copy_strip_slash test_shim_copy_mirror test_shim_copy_mirror_sftp test_shim_copy_baseDir
+test_shim_race_conditions:
+	-./shim_test_race_conditions.sh >shim_test_race_conditions.log 2>&1
+	python3 ./check_shim_test.py shim_test_race_conditions.log
+
+test_shim: test_shim_post test_shim_copy_strip test_shim_copy_strip_slash test_shim_copy_mirror test_shim_copy_mirror_sftp test_shim_copy_baseDir test_shim_race_conditions
diff --git a/shim_copy_race_conditions.sh b/shim_copy_race_conditions.sh
new file mode 100755
index 0000000..b92b972
--- /dev/null
+++ b/shim_copy_race_conditions.sh
@@ -0,0 +1,80 @@
+# Test some known cases that can trigger race conditions/order of 
+# operations problems. 
+# Related issues:
+# 	sarracenia #1395
+# 	sarracenia #1366
+# 	sarracenia #1297
+#       sarrac #174
+
+set -x
+
+cd shim_dirA
+which bash
+
+echo "#test 0 comment 010 shim copy posting start"
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 000 capturing stdout"
+echo "hoho" >> ./hoho
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 c program run."
+truncate --size=2 ./hoho
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 020 python program run"
+/usr/bin/python3 ../pyiotest
+
+grep lovely pyiotest
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 030 cp command"
+cp ../libsr3shim.c hoho_my_darling.txt
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 040 cp command2"
+cp ../libsr3shim.c file_to_delete
+
+#echo "#test 1 hlink 050 hard link command"
+#ln hoho hard_link_to_hoho
+
+echo "#test 1 link 050 symlink to a broken place"
+ln -sf broken_do_not_exist symlink_to_non_existent_place
+
+# (re-) creating a symlink that already exists should generate two messages
+# one link with a temporary name and one rename that renames the temporary name to the
+# correct name, and overwrites the already existing symlink in the process
+
+echo "#test 1,1 link,rename 050 symlink to a broken place"
+ln -sf broken_do_not_exist symlink_to_non_existent_place
+
+#echo "#test 1 link 050 symlink to a broken place"
+#ln -sf `pwd`/broken_do_not_exist2 `pwd`/symlink_to_non_existent_place2
+
+echo "#test 1 link 060 symlink to existing place"
+ln -s file_to_delete link_to_file_to_delete
+
+
+
+
+echo "#test 1 directory 100 mkdir 1"
+mkdir dirone
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 120 stdout redirection in a subdir"
+echo "fileone" >>dirone/fileone
+
+echo "#test 1 sha512 120 2nd stdout redirection in a subdir"
+echo "lovely" >>dirone/fileabcd
+
+echo "#test 1 link 120 symlink inside dir"
+ln -s dirone/fileone dirone/link_to_fileone
+
+echo "#test 1 rename 120 rename fileone to filetwo"
+mv dirone/fileone dirone/filetwo
+
+# wait to ensure file copies finish
+sleep 20
+
+# expect 4 messages: 3 for the contents being deleted and 1 for the directory itself (should be last)
+echo "#test 4 remove 130 remove non-empty directory"
+rm -rf dirone
+
+
+
+
+echo "#test 0 comment 160 shim copy posting end"
diff --git a/shim_test_race_conditions.sh b/shim_test_race_conditions.sh
new file mode 100755
index 0000000..5215f2e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/shim_test_race_conditions.sh
@@ -0,0 +1,273 @@
+# based on shim_copy_mirror_sftp.sh
+
+VERSION=`head -1 debian/changelog| sed 's/.*(//' | sed 's/).*//'`
+MAJOR_VERSION=`echo \"${VERSION}\" | sed 's+\..*++g'`
+
+
+# job step 0 - setup...
+if [ ! -d ~/test ]; then
+     mkdir ~/test
+fi
+
+echo "ignore rm errors.. cleaning before start"
+rm -rf shim_dirA/ shim_dirB/
+
+for d in shim_dirA shim_dirB shim_dirC; do
+        if [ -d $d ]; then
+            echo "ignore rm -rf $d"
+            rm -rf $d
+        fi
+        mkdir $d
+done 
+
+# symlink between directories out of tree.
+ln -s ../shim_dirA/dirthree  shim_dirC/thedir
+
+mkdir -p ~/.config/sr3/subscribe
+mkdir -p ~/.config/sr3/cpost
+
+#cp local_copy.conf ~/.config/sr3/subscribe
+
+if [ ! "${BROKER}" ]; then
+    BROKER=amqp://tfeed@localhost
+fi
+if [ ! "${EXCHANGE}" ]; then
+    EXCHANGE=xs_feed
+fi
+
+cat >~/.config/sr3/subscribe/local_copy.conf <<EOT
+
+# to force retries to be processed more quickly
+housekeeping 30s
+
+broker ${BROKER}
+exchange ${EXCHANGE}
+messageDebugDump on
+topicPrefix v03.post
+subtopic #
+logReject on
+logLevel debug
+debug True
+expire 10m
+nodupe_ttl 0
+logMessageDump on
+callback log
+batch 1
+mirror True
+directory `pwd`/shim_dirB
+accept .*`realpath .`/.*
+accept .*`realpath ${HOME}/test`/.*
+reject .*
+#accept .*
+
+EOT
+
+#cp local_post.conf ~/.config/sr3/cpost
+cat >~/.config/sr3/cpost/local_post.conf  <<EOT
+
+post_broker ${BROKER}
+post_exchange ${EXCHANGE}
+
+vip 127.0.0.1
+realpath off
+logReject on
+logLevel debug
+debug True
+exchangeDeclare True
+#integrity none
+shim_post_minterval 10
+#shim_skip_parent_open_files
+#shim_post_once
+#shim_defer_posting_to_exit
+realpathFilter on
+realpathPost on
+realpathAdjust -1
+expire 1d
+nodupe_ttl 0
+header toto=pig
+events modify,link,delete,mkdir,rmdir
+
+post_baseUrl sftp://${USER}@localhost/`realpath $(pwd)`/shim_dirA
+post_topicPrefix v03.post
+
+accept `realpath .`/.*
+accept `realpath ${HOME}/test`/.*
+reject .*
+EOT
+
+mkdir -p ~/.config/sr3/plugins
+cat >~/.config/sr3/plugins/screw_up_order.py  <<EOT
+
+import logging
+from sarracenia.flowcb import FlowCB
+
+logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
+
+class Screw_up_order(FlowCB):
+    """ for testing shim: re-order certain events to simulate race conditions
+
+        CASE A: overwriting a symlink that already exists results in two posts:
+            1) symlink temporary name (Cfdsfadsa) to correct destination (fileOp link)
+            2) rename temporary symlink to desired_name, overwriting the old file/symlink
+               named desired_name in the process (fileOp link + rename)
+
+            re-order worklist so that link+rename fileOp events come before just link
+            example messages:
+                2025-04-02 20:58:15,394 [INFO] shim published: { "pubTime":"20250402205815.39313447", "baseUrl":"file:/fs/home/ras000/metpx-sr3c-3.25.03rc3-x64/shim_dirA", "relPath":"CucZxOOZ", "topic":"v03.post", "toto":"pig", "fileOp" : { "link":"../libsr3shim.c"}}
+
+                2025-04-02 20:58:15,395 [INFO] shim published: { "pubTime":"20250402205815.39473321", "baseUrl":"file:/fs/home/ras000/metpx-sr3c-3.25.03rc3-x64/shim_dirA", "relPath":"file_to_delete", "topic":"v03.post", "toto":"pig", "fileOp" : { "link":"../libsr3shim.c", "rename" : "/fs/home/ras000/metpx-sr3c-3.25.03rc3-x64/shim_dirA/CucZxOOZ" }}
+
+        CASE B: directory removal - first all the files and subdirectories are deleted, then
+            the directory gets deleted. If the final remove message is processed before all the
+            files and subdirectories are deleted, the rmdir will fail (because the dir is not empty).
+
+            This re-orders the messages to ensure that the directory removal is always attempted before
+            the directory is empty.
+
+
+    """
+
+    def __init__(self, options):
+        super().__init__(options, logger)
+        self.delayed_link = []
+        self.delayed_remove = []
+        self.new_delayed_link = []
+        self.new_delayed_remove = []
+
+        # how many batches to delay before putting the delayed messages back in
+        self.o.add_option('delay_batches', 'count', default_value=10)
+        self.batch_count = 0
+
+    def after_accept(self, worklist):
+        new_incoming = []
+        for msg in worklist.incoming:
+            # don't interfere with retries and non-fileOps
+            if ('_isRetry' in msg and msg['_isRetry']) or 'fileOp' not in msg:
+                new_incoming.append(msg)
+                continue
+            # fileOps
+            else:
+                # delay links so the link+rename gets handled first
+                if 'link' in msg['fileOp'] and 'rename' not in msg['fileOp']:
+                    self.new_delayed_link.append(msg)
+                    logger.info(f"delaying link msg: {msg}")
+                # delay non-directory removes; this will cause directory removes to be attempted first
+                elif 'remove' in msg['fileOp'] and 'directory' not in msg['fileOp']:
+                    self.new_delayed_remove.append(msg)
+                    logger.info(f"delaying non-directory remove msg: {msg}")
+                else:
+                    new_incoming.append(msg)
+
+        worklist.incoming = new_incoming
+
+        self.batch_count +=1
+
+        # put the delayed messages from last batch into this batch
+        if self.batch_count >= self.o.delay_batches:
+            logger.info(f"releasing delayed messages ({len(self.delayed_link)} links, {len(self.delayed_remove)} removes)")
+            worklist.incoming.extend(self.delayed_link)
+            worklist.incoming.extend(self.delayed_remove)
+            self.delayed_link = self.new_delayed_link
+            self.delayed_remove = self.new_delayed_remove
+            self.new_delayed_link = []
+            self.new_delayed_remove = []
+            self.batch_count = 0
+
+EOT
+
+echo "callback screw_up_order" >> ~/.config/sr3/default.conf
+
+sr3 declare cpost/local_post
+sr3 declare subscribe/local_copy
+sr3 start subscribe/local_copy.conf
+
+export SR_POST_CONFIG=local_post.conf
+if [ "${SYSTEM_SHIM_TEST}" ]; then
+   export LD_PRELOAD=libsr3shim.so.${VERSION}
+else
+   export LD_PRELOAD=`pwd`/libsr3shim.so.${VERSION}
+   export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=`pwd`:${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}
+fi
+export SR_SHIMDEBUG=99
+
+# run in a new shell to ensure output redirection correctly triggers posts #177
+#bash ./shim_copy_post2.sh &
+bash ./shim_copy_race_conditions.sh &
+
+unset SR_POST_CONFIG
+unset SR_SHIMDEBUG
+unset LD_PRELOAD
+wait
+
+
+# job step 2... copy.
+sleepytime=15
+echo "waiting ${sleepytime} seconds for copies to complete"
+sleep ${sleepytime}
+
+sr3 remove cpost/local_post.conf
+
+# wait for retries to finish before stopping subscriber
+
+echo "Waiting for retries to finish..."
+stalled=0
+stalled_value=-1
+retry_msgcnt="$(cat ~/.cache/sr3/subscribe/local_copy/*retry* 2>/dev/null | sort -u | wc -l)"
+while [ $retry_msgcnt -gt 0 ]; do
+        printf "${flow_test_name} Still %4s messages to retry, waiting...\n" "$retry_msgcnt"
+        sleep 15
+        retry_msgcnt="$(cat ~/.cache/sr3/subscribe/local_copy/*retry* 2>/dev/null | sort -u | wc -l)"
+
+        if [ "${stalled_value}" == "${retry_msgcnt}" ]; then
+              stalled=$((stalled+1));
+              if [ "${stalled}" == 5 ]; then
+                 printf "\n    Warning some retries stalled, skipping..., might want to check the logs\n\n"
+                 retry_msgcnt=0
+              fi
+        else
+              stalled_value=$retry_msgcnt
+              stalled=0
+        fi
+done
+
+# wait a bit longer
+sleep 60
+
+sr3 stop subscribe/local_copy.conf
+sr3 remove subscribe/local_copy.conf
+
+rm ~/.config/sr3/plugins/screw_up_order.py
+
+sed -i '/callback screw_up_order/d' ~/.config/sr3/default.conf
+
+echo "#test 0 comment comparing trees"
+    
+    
+cd shim_dirA
+find -H . -type f | xargs -d '\n' md5sum >../dirA.sums
+cd ../shim_dirB
+find -H . -type f | xargs -d '\n' md5sum >../dirB.sums
+cd ..
+    
+diffs="`diff dirA.sums dirB.sums| wc -l`"
+
+cd shim_dirA
+find . -type l  | xargs ls -al | cut --bytes=42- >../dirA.links
+cd ../shim_dirB
+find . -type l  | xargs ls -al | cut --bytes=42- >../dirB.links
+cd ..
+
+sed 's+shim_dirB+shim_dirA+' dirB.links >dirC.links
+
+linkdiffs="`diff dirA.links dirC.links|wc -l`"
+
+if [ "${linkdiffs}" -eq 0 -a "${diffs}" -eq 0 ]; then
+	echo "RESULT: Good! trees links the same: `wc -l dirA.sums` files and `wc -l dirA.links` links mirrored"
+else
+       echo "RESULT: BAD tree differences in $diffs files, and $linkdiffs links"
+       echo "shim_dirA:"
+       ls -hal shim_dirA
+       echo 
+       echo "shim_dirB:"
+       ls -hal shim_dirB
+fi